BruinFB

Hi Coach, I agree with Coach Elrod that this is a broad topic. And in terms of resources, he is the best one you can speak to. I will add a few other resources that I think are excellent sources of info on the Wing T Books: Coach Elrod's books (available on here I think).... Tubby Raymond's "An Order of Football" (hard to get)... Denny Creehan's "Wing T A-Z" (2 volume's easy to find) Websites... This is a great site and if you go back through the forum history, you can find some great info National Wing T Clinic - This is a yearly clinic run by Tom Herman and Dave McDonald and both guys are great resources Southeast Wing T Clinic - This is run by Roger Holmes (Dublin, GA) and he is an excellent resource too. In terms of which plays to add... I think it depends on your personnel and what you want to accomplish. If you have several really good backs that can do a few different thigns... than Buck, Trap, Down are a great 3 play sequence that has some built in answers and allow you to put the DE in conflict. If you have one stud RB, maybe Belly is a better thing to focus on... Belly has several variations and is a great compliment to run with Rocket If you have a FB that is more like another linemen, and your HBs are your better runners, than maybe its best to foucs on Power, CTR There are so many great ways to attack a defense from this style of offense... as you mentioned in your Post, you have to be careful to not do too much (thus not getting great at anything). I think the big keys are to get a handful of plays that look the same and put the defense in conflict in ways that you feel will give you an advantage, that whatever plays you have that you can get your OLine to execute them against all defenses, and that you maximize your personnel with what you do (running QB, style of RBs etc.) Good Luck

Hi Coach, Do you guys have any "quick game" or "3 step" pass game? I think that is an easy way to gain some yards in the pass game... and often it makes the defense have a second player (safety or OLB) be at least "aware" of your WR. That can help loosen teams up. The other one we loved was running 4 verts. We would run JET or ROCKET out of empty sets. Then, if we had teams rolling safeties with the Jet or Rock Mo... we would throw 4 verts behind them.

Hey Coach, We tried practicing the "jet motion - lead up" a few years back... We didn't like it. Either the Jet back had to slow down too much (which gave it away) or he was out of control (overran it, etc.). I agree that there is probably someone who has done it and made it work, but we just never were able to time it up to the point that we liked it. Instead, we just tried to use the fact that WE KNEW the LB was reading our slot to our advantage. We ran straight dive or trap with jet mo and the Wing "ARC" blocking. Or we ran jet with the slot folding inside (and the FB leading to the "Force" defender). Or we would run QB Keep off of the Belly fake if we knew the OLB was reading the fold in block by our slot.

Hi Coach, We have done it both ways. I like it a little better to the wingback with the Halfback (diveback position) faking a NO-MO Rocket. Since this was a formation that we would run a ton of that NO-MO Rocket out of, we found that teams saw the Halfback outside releasing and their LBs would flow outside... I suppose if you ran more BELLY out of the formation than it would be just as good giving the ball to that Halfback.

We think the Center has to be a sturdy kid who won't get driven back, you are right about playing odd front teams with good NTs, they'll mess everything up if you are weak at center. Luckily, since Center does not require a lot of complex rules (mostly ON or AWAY)... I think you can get away with a kid who is physically tough, hopefully pretty heavy in his lower half, and can step while he snaps. We've played with kids who were not that smart, couldn't move very well, couldn't pull, some guys who were short and heavy but were tough.... we've had a lot of different types, but on any of our good teams, the Center could hold his ground against the nose.

I love the BEAR/BULL formation vs. good 50 teams. For us (what I tell our coaches and kids) is that we do not worry about that BSLB. We teach the sharp cut by the ballcarrier (we actually call it a "50 Cut"). And the second thing is we tell our C/G to DOUBLE that nose into the Backside LB. With the DOUBLE TEAM going that way, and the Bear/Bull back getting the PSLB, that is a lot of traffic for the backside LB. We have been tackled by the BSLB before, but it is rare. I have known coaches that will combo the Double Team to the backside LB too. We would just rather be really physical with that Double... but I can understand it. We will run a SUPER POWER play out of the BEAR/BULL too. The Bear/Bull Kicks the End, FB wraps through the hole. We did this because some of the well coached teams started pinching that 4 technique really hard when we were in Bear/Bull.

We played 11 games. I have rounded these to the nearest whole number Play per game: Power - 10 times Rocket - 7 Bucksweep - 5 Trap - 4 Belly - 4 Counter XX - 2 Dive/Double Dive - 2

Coach, What are the FB's steps on Belly when he is offset? I do not see why it wouldn't work if your FB ends up getting the ball in the same area as when he is directly behind the QB. Do you run BellySweep with FB behind the QB? We put it in last year for the first time, and it worked well for us. We blocked the front like Waggle, PSHB Loaded the ILB, and the WR cracked on Force. My only thought on why we wouldn't do it is because teams usually react (overreact?) to the flank when we offset our FB. So then hitting them with a flank play wouldn't work as well. However... You stated that you guys run the Belly well from the offset, so maybe teams are still thinking inside when he is offset, that would make BellySweep effective.

Hi Coach, I think it sounds like you are on the right track. There are some really great old posts on here that can help you learn a lot about how this offense is meant to operate. I do think that you should look into Coach Elrod's material. If you use his terminology, count system, etc. I think it will be to your advantage and your kids advantage. There have been so many guys to run this offense and have learned through trial and error, if you learn from them it will let you get off to a good start. I saw that you are looking for coaches close to you that run the system and I think that is smart too. Nothing beats sitting down and speaking with someone who has run the offense. As for learning new things from guys on this site, the more specific questions that you ask, the more detailed answers you will get. It seems to get slow in the summer, but hopefully some of the regular posters will continue to post and answer questions. Good Luck! This is a great offense. Stick with it, like any offense you will have issues at times, but there are answers out there. I always think that committing to a style is important. I hope that some of the guys on this site can be of some help.

I would also 2nd the CTR BOOT. It has always been a great play (one we do not call enough). That FB seems to always be open in the flat. It is tough for the Flat/Force player to not fall inside once he sees the counter action.

Coach, do I have the block on the Tackle Trap Trick correct vs. a straight 5-2? PSG and C Double team the Nose. PST tricks the 4 tech. TE blocks the ILB. ? I would think that the TE would have a tough time getting to the ILB in time.

We run both. We run Rocket a lot more. We think Rocket is a better play on its own, it hits wider and faster. We run Jet too because we like the compliments off of Jet better. Running Trap underneath a Jet fake seems to work better than under a Rocket fake. The other thing about having both is that the Jet motion doesn't always get the same reactions that the Rocket motion does. The Jet motion is quicker and against some teams, they do not adjust to the Jet motion, but they do to our Rocket motion (sometimes that can work to your advantage too).

Congratulations on a fine season Coach! I love reading success stories like this one. I glad that you did well under center, I know that there are some positives to being in the gun, but there are also some positives to being under center. We are also 100% under center and have done quite well with it. Keep up the good work.

We have used it a lot vs. Teams that play an old-school Okie 5-2 Defense. Trap Influence... The PST blocks OUT, and the Bear back blocks the PSILB....Everyone else blocks trap as normal, but the PST Influence allows for an easier trap block if the team really squeezes the 4 tech DT on an inside release. Power with Two Double Teams... We have the Center and PSG double the nose....PST and TE double the 4 Tech.... Bear back blocks the PSILB. Super Power....The Bear Back Kick outs the DE and the FB wraps into the hole with the BSG. We also ran Belly, Belly Rocket (check out Coach E's clip on this play it is pretty awesome) and sneaky Jet to the Bear back.

What have you guys found most successful against teams that play with a Wide #1 to the SE side? We will offset the FB and block him with the Wingback. Or we will tighten the split of our SE and crack the #1 and send the Wingback to the corner. Are there any variations that you have found successful? We do not want to abandon our rules and/or the count system.

Thanks Coach, Going underneath would certainly solve it. We still see some old-school split-6. It is one of the reasons that we put back in BUCK SWEEP which we didn't run for a number of years. Power...or other off-tackle stuff wasn't great, but BUCK SWEEP has been pretty good, it is nice to get a bigger Guard blocking that OLB.

Coach E, I am picturing the old Split-6 Defense.... Two DT's covering the G's and Two ILB's also over the G's. Our OT is uncovered, and there is only one inside LB from the C to the TE. If that PSLB scrapes immediately into the off-tackle area, I'd be worried that the Wing wouldn't get to the PSLB in time. Like I said, we've influenced with the TE, we just have never had the Wing try and go down to that ILB... Instead we find a way to get an extra back leading through the hole by using different formations.

Coach, Do you ever have an issue with the Wing getting to the LB in time? Looking at it, I would be worried that if the PSLB steps up quickly into the C-gap then the Wing might not get to him. We have had the TE outside release on Power, we have done this out of a Bear/Bull back, or out of our "Weak" set (both slot and diveback on same side) with motion. We call it SuperPower because we have the HB (whether in motion or in the Bear/Bull position) kickout, the FB leads on the PSLB and we still pull the BSG through the hole. It has been good for us, but obviously the formation tends to tip it off a bit (we do other things from those actions too). I'm interested in this because it is out of the normal 100/900 set. Lastly, though we haven't run power exactly like this, the point about the TE taking an extra big split vs. even defenses is really important. Once we started doing that, it really helped our Power game vs. even defenses.

We have never run Belly Sweep or Down Sweep. We have been worried about adding extra blocking schemes for our linemen. We are always looking for good ways to block the 5-2 defenses though. We are considering running both of these if we can find a way to teach it simply enough to the Oline.

Coach, How do you block the force player without pulling the BSG? Would you mind sharing your 2 ways that you block it? Also, do you run the Down Sweep?

We only XB to the SE side, not to a TE. I know that weak side OLB is not really a 9 tech, shouldn't have called him that.

vs. the 4-0-4 front we have "Fan" blocked it with success at times. I think that it is good if your Rocket is working well. That 4 tech on the playside will often be fighting to the outside with the outside release of the OT and it can open a really wide hole. So we like it if we are faking Rocket behind it. If we a running a regular belly with no mo or more traditional sail mo, then we prefer it how it is drawn in Coach's diagram; as a crossblock in which the OT base blocks the 4 tech and the OG pulls to kick out the 9 tech. This has been our history and how we have had some success with it. When we face good 50 teams (4-0-4 front) they can make Belly pretty tough. I'd like to hear other ways guys have had success running Belly vs. this front.

I agree with the previous posts. One other thing that we have found is the importance of the release for the Guard or Tackle (depending on which is covered). We face so many teams that coach their defensive linemen to hold up our guys and squeeze effectively. If you can get your Oline to evade and release quickly from the dline, it really helps make trap go. In order to do this, we make sure our horizontal and vertical splits are precise. We want to be as far back off the ball as legally possible, and we will widen our splits an extra 6-8 inches when trap is called. Against an even front, we know that our Guard must get a fast and clean release from the DT, and vs. an odd front our Tackle must do the same.

Coach, I am not fluent in Coach E's terminology. So I am not sure if this is what your asking. I apologize if it isn't any help. We will run trap away from our Rocket motion. What we like about it is that it is an easy add since we already have trap. The linemen do not have to change a thing. It seems to work well if teams ILB's start cheating to stop the rocket and therefore they do not fill inside as hard. Another thing that we have done is offset the FB away from the trap. On the snap the FB just attacks the trap side of the Center (no counter steps). This was good if teams tried to cheat our alignment with offset...some kids would just forget their keys when we offset the FB. It is a bit of an awkward path for the FB, we usually only do it against odd front teams because the natural cut goes that way, but with some reps we were pretty good at it. Then off that, if teams started to key the FB when he was offset, we would offset him, then have him attack inside and still pitch the ball on Rocket. We got some ILB's stepping up to stop the trap while we were tossing the ball outside.

We run quite a bit of No Mo Rocket. It is a great play to run "on first sound" before the defense can really get set. We align the diveback a little wider than his normal alignment. He will align with his inside foot on the OT's outside foot. On the snap the HB will take an open step and run parallel to the L.O.S (we make sure he does not gain more depth). QB tosses the ball the same as with motion. The play is blocked the same as well. We always do it from a formation in which we have a wing/slot and a diveback on the same side (it can be a wing/slot and the offset FB too).